Pointless Arguments 101

other-side-of-the-universe:

pointlessarguments101:

mranonymas:

pointlessarguments101:

I took the time to research this matter before I hired Andy and I’ve kept an eye on it going forward.  I don’t agree that Andy has done anything to warrant (let alone ask for) this level of vitriol and nastiness.

I don’t judge Andy’s responses to all this hate because I honestly don’t know what I would do if the roles were reversed.  I only know that, with all this negativity from anonymous sources, I thought it was worthwhile to put something positive out there as someone who works with Andy professionally. 

If the price is accusations of “ass patting” or “white-knighting”, I’ll live.

By “ass-pattin” and “white-knighting”, I did mean that your huge wall of text was basically “Guys, stop hating on someone I like” in a nutshell. There are a lot of people who hate him for good and clear reasons, but express it by different ways (by being effectively ‘rude’ or more polite).

You have the right to believe what you want, but you cannot really dismiss all of the facts/proofs that had been shown by so many people against Preston.

My point, once again, is that I don’t agree that these “facts” that have been provided in any way justify the result - rampant attacks against Andy’s personal and professional life.

What I’m saying isn’t “stop hating on someone I like”. What I am saying is that, for anyone who might come into this mess now, it is worth noting that Andy’s professional contacts respect him enough to speak in favor of him publicly despite the negative responses they know they may receive.

Andy has done great work for me and I am grateful to have him on my team.  Story, end of.

I’m pretty sure you just passive aggressively threatened me. I’ll err on the side of caution and assume you did not, however.

First of all, while I did speak as if I were a professional artist, I’m not. I’ve taken all of four art classes in my life and haven’t even officially switched to an art major. I’m twenty. Even so, I think I can safely say I understand art and the art field a lot better than you. Why? Well, probably because I wouldn’t brag about a cartoonist being able to keep up with deadlines. That’s like applauding a dentist for being able to touch teeth. It comes with the territory.

Artists who are troubled by deadlines generally don’t succeed in that field and stick to studio art or doing it for a hobby. So stop acting like he’s some saint for being able to keep deadlines.

The reason you read something and interpreted it as a response to an assumed personal attack is a mystery to me. I don’t feel insulted. If every time someone came to Dobson’s aid I felt it a personal insult, I would likely have broken down long ago.

However, you did falsely assume that everyone who dislikes Dobson harasses Dobson, which isn’t so. I’ve been aware of his internet presence for years, and I have brought constructive criticism to him before he received an onslaught of flaming. Do you know what he did? He went into my gallery, tore it to shreds and then blocked me. Years later on deviantART he argued with my criticism, went to my gallery (likely with the intention to tear it to shreds) and found that the passing years had done me much better than him and had nothing to complain about. In fact, he favorited things. Then he called me a few insults and blocked me. So I really think you, again, don’t have a grasp of the situation.

You said that he doesn’t wilt under criticism because you give him criticism and he takes it into consideration and works with it. Well, duh. I mean, one big stinking duh. Of course he does! You’re paying him! He can’t call you a moron and block you, can’t insist you’re a terrible person because you think his anatomy is lacking, can’t accuse you of being homophobic because you think a heterosexual male shouldn’t be speaking for the lesbian community (ironic, right?), can’t go through your body of work and pick it apart (only better artists can get away with constructive crit)! You are paying him. He’s going to be polite.

And back to what I think you threatened me with — I’m not afraid of the people who side with Dobson not hiring me because I’m mean, because I want to work on some really awesome stuff in my future.

Threaten you?  Not even a little.  I do, however, believe that making a habit of badmouthing other artists (no matter how much you think they deserve it) will do you no good in your career.

As for keeping deadlines, frankly, many great artists and writers struggle with this.  That’s often why comics aren’t released on time.  It may seem like a given to you, but meeting a deadline is incredibly important, especially when it comes to an indie digital comic.  I need those strips to come out every Tuesday and Thursday.  The second we miss a scheduled strip, we lose some audience.  That wouldn’t be great so, yes, I value Andy meeting a deadline very much.

My friend is an editor at IDW.  You should hear the stories she told me privately about some of the best-known writers and artists not getting their work in on time.  It’s a real problem.  I could not afford to have an artist like that work on my strip.

Whether Andy does it for money or not, the fact is he does take criticism from Brent and I.  If he was that terrible, he would ignore us and do whatever he wanted.  He doesn’t do that.  To the contrary, we all work together to make the strip something we are all happy with.  I feel very good about that.

And when I challenge people who attack Andy, I am specifically talking about the people who bring up his fetish art, who demand he take their criticism when all they are saying is “you suck”, and who make fun of how he looks.  What you’re talking about is between you and Andy on a personal level.  What I’m talking about is stuff like that Encyclopedia Dramatica page about him.  Have you seen that?  I’m sorry, but there is no excuse in my mind to tormenting someone to that degree.

Once again, I was not threatening you.  I’ve been trying to have a respectful dialogue but each response you’ve given has been adversarial and, at times, insulting.  I’m all for having a conversation, but if all you’re going to do is continue to talk down to me, I’d rather we just agree to disagree and go our separate ways.

halleypropism:

http://pointlessarguments101.tumblr.com/

here’s a constructive criticism for you, Mr. Roth, as long as you’re on tumblr - your jokes in the Brentalfloss comic have been kind of tired, predictable, and cliched so far, probably not indicative of the writing you are capable of. Andrew Dobson still…

And here’s a respectful response.  Both Brent and I are aware that the comic needs to evolve and are always working to find ways to make it better.  It doesn’t thrill me when I see people say it’s horrible but I’d rather absorb the criticism as best as I can and do better.

There are times when I wish Andy would stay quiet and let people have their say rather than responding to everything but, hey, I made a tumblr with the sole purpose of stickingg up for the guy.  Even I know that’s not the smartest decision I’ll ever make.

Still, I’d rather people think I don’t know what I’m talking about than stay quiet when someone I respect is treated in a way I simply feel is unnecessary.  That doesn’t mean I think anyone who doesn’t like Andy is bad or wrong, just that I don’t agree with the nature of some of the attacks and, on this one occasion, I’m going to speak up and say so.  

other-side-of-the-universe:

pointlessarguments101:

My name is Dan Roth and I am the co-writer of the brentalfloss webcomic. For the last six or so months, Brent and I have worked with Andy to craft a comic we hoped would be a worthy addition to the brentalfloss brand. Whether you like the comic or not, I can tell you that Andy continues to be an…

I really don’t think you did any real research on him. I’m not talking about his appearance or his fetishes. I’ve never looked at art and thought, “I wonder if this person is an ugly creep?” I’m talking about how unprofessional he really is.

There’s a reason why he doesn’t have a real job in the art world and works freelance. People like him don’t get hired. People who wilt under the slightest criticism don’t get work. People who do not improve at all over six years do not get work. People who arrogantly deny any flaw or fault under the guise of “style” do not get work.

So maybe you should have hired someone who was actually good at art (I can say with confidence that Andrew Dobson is not a good artist) and was actually professional. I’m sorry you’re so unaware of what a professional artist is actually like. Plenty of us can meet deadlines. Plenty of us can meet deadlines and not draw like a fifteen-year-old. So please do not try to insult artists while at the same time defend Dobson.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

You have turned my defense of Andy into an attack on you.  I don’t know you.  I have no interest in attacking you. I know Andy and respect him.  I have an interest in pointing out why I have chosen to use him as my artist and why I respect him.

I did not insult all artists.  As someone who is a professional writer, I am aware that there are creative people who can produce consistently on deadline, but there are many who cannot.  Andy produces, he does so on time, and to the satisfaction of our team.  That is something that is valued in any industry.  I value him for this and because his style matches the tone both Brent and I wanted for the brentalfloss comic.

Andy is not wilting under slight criticism.  He is being personally attacked repeatedly by people who do not know him in the least.  The majority of the criticisms sent his way are, at this point, ones designed to get a rise out of him, not to help him become a better artist.  I imagine it is very difficult, once there are pages dedicated to mocking you, to differentiate between genuine criticism and bullying.   I also imagine that is why he ignores most criticism at this point.

I do know that Andy accepts criticism, though, because both Brent and I provide it.  We will ask him to change and improve panels for our comic often and he does so.  That is professional behavior and we appreciate it.

Something I find unprofessional is making personal attacks against a fellow artist because you do not think they are good enough.  

If you know so much then I am sure I don’t need to tell you what a small world the comic book industry is.  Someone who persists in insulting their peers is just as likely (if not more so) to have trouble getting work as those who sometimes struggle accepting criticism.

I would personally feel disinclined to commission an artist who enjoys publicly attacking their peers.  I am by far not the only writer who feels that way. 

mranonymas:

pointlessarguments101:

I took the time to research this matter before I hired Andy and I’ve kept an eye on it going forward.  I don’t agree that Andy has done anything to warrant (let alone ask for) this level of vitriol and nastiness.

I don’t judge Andy’s responses to all this hate because I honestly don’t know what I would do if the roles were reversed.  I only know that, with all this negativity from anonymous sources, I thought it was worthwhile to put something positive out there as someone who works with Andy professionally. 

If the price is accusations of “ass patting” or “white-knighting”, I’ll live.

By “ass-pattin” and “white-knighting”, I did mean that your huge wall of text was basically “Guys, stop hating on someone I like” in a nutshell. There are a lot of people who hate him for good and clear reasons, but express it by different ways (by being effectively ‘rude’ or more polite).

You have the right to believe what you want, but you cannot really dismiss all of the facts/proofs that had been shown by so many people against Preston.

My point, once again, is that I don’t agree that these “facts” that have been provided in any way justify the result - rampant attacks against Andy’s personal and professional life.

What I’m saying isn’t “stop hating on someone I like”. What I am saying is that, for anyone who might come into this mess now, it is worth noting that Andy’s professional contacts respect him enough to speak in favor of him publicly despite the negative responses they know they may receive.

Andy has done great work for me and I am grateful to have him on my team.  Story, end of.

mranonymas:

pointlessarguments101:

My name is Dan Roth and I am the co-writer of the brentalfloss webcomic. For the last six or so months, Brent and I have worked with Andy to craft a comic we hoped would be a worthy addition to the brentalfloss brand. Whether you like the comic or not, I can tell you that Andy continues to be an…

Smells the ass-patting and the desesperate white-knightening in this huge wall of text (especially in the 7th paragraph).

Not saying that defending a colleague/friend is bad, but when your friend has gotten a lot of hate/despise because of his own work (SYAC comics) and ESPECIALLY because of his behavior (such as blaming on everything else instead of himself when he fails at something, being insecure of his own popularity, always complaining about something on his life, disregarding any genuine advices/critiques, etc… for example), you have to see the other side of the story, and not just Preston’s version.

Everyone, outside of his only deviantArt fanbase, will tell you that. Hell, he even begged to be treated in such a way, like a drama queen

I took the time to research this matter before I hired Andy and I’ve kept an eye on it going forward.  I don’t agree that Andy has done anything to warrant (let alone ask for) this level of vitriol and nastiness.

I don’t judge Andy’s responses to all this hate because I honestly don’t know what I would do if the roles were reversed.  I only know that, with all this negativity from anonymous sources, I thought it was worthwhile to put something positive out there as someone who works with Andy professionally. 

If the price is accusations of “ass patting” or “white-knighting”, I’ll live.